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Talk:Hotaru
Gender So... if it wasn't a mistranslation in the anime, then she is most likely a girl. I mean, look at her photo in the manga. Clearly, it's female, not another Bridget Incident. Kulaguy 20:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC) :I mean in the sound drama, when they say she's a guy, that's what they actually said in Japanese, not a translation mistake. And as far as the picture goes, I've seen an awful lot of anime and that might very well be a guy. Shorts are something character designers like to use when they want to confuse the hell out of you, like with Subaru in Sakura Taisen V... -Kuukai 21:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC) ::But the problem is, .hack isn't like other anime, AFAIK. I doubt they would use cliches like that. Plus, is there any other character in .hack that looks like the opposite gender than what they really are? Kulaguy 21:12, 14 June 2006 (UTC) :::Lots of people thought Silabus might be female at first. And irl Hotaru doesn't look the opposite to me, just really androgynous, possibly a young bishounen. -Kuukai 22:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC) ::They *did* say Hotaru was a guy, but I'm pretty sure they were only joking.--OtakuD50 21:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC) :::In the context of that CD Hotaru was a guy. And it wasn't exactly GIFT. But yeah, like I wrote in the article, it wasn't exactly "100% Canon Guaranteed" either. I'm not trying to make a case for Hotaru definitely being male, just that he is in one branch of the canon, and in the other we really don't know because nothing explicit has been said, all we have is a picture we can't seem to agree on. -Kuukai 22:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC) ::::Now I'm as confused as ever. Kuukai, you got AI Buster 2 in Japanese, don't you? Are you able to translate part of Firely? Specifically, a little bit before chapter 3, when Hotaru meets some players. One of the players says "He's a gaijin", which means Hotaru's character could be a boy. Kulaguy 22:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC) :::::Interesting. Actually I don't have it (I have a bunch of the stories in it from where they were originally published, but not that one), I could check with someone who does if you want though. Usually Tokyopop just pulls pronouns out of nowhere though, so it's likely gender-neutral. And even if it wasn't, I have to say that it could very well be a mistake on the speaker's part. And we're talking about in-game, right? That still really doesn't bring us closer to irl gender... (though the audio drama made the claim that Hotaru was male even in The World, and Shugo was the only one who never realized this) -Kuukai 22:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC) :::Well it seems pretty obvious that Hotaru is a girl in the Legend of the Twilight manga. She's refered to as female on multiple occasions, and there's the fact that she gets hit on by like 5 guys at once. The way I see it she's a female avatar at least in both the anime and manga. Her gender irl is still up for debate, though I still imagine her being female (in the manga at least, the anime is open for dicussion). --CRtwenty 11:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC) ::::Well, people can make mistakes. Also, I'm betting at least half the gender-specific language in the English version wasn't there in the Japanese version. As far as the anime continuity goes, her PC is male though, it would seem... (Magi too I believe). Whatever, I'm happy with the "controversy" section, people know we don't really know, so I guess I'll leave it at that... - Kuukai 18:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC) Oddly, in AI Buster 2, her gender is listed as ???. It's like they are trying to feed the Hotaru=Boy fire, or something. :Well, they did that because you weren't supposed to make the connection between Firefly and Hotaru until the very end. --CRtwenty 00:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC) ::Time to bring this debate back up. One character saying Hotaru is a boy isn't enough proof. Hell, if it was in the Tokyopopo version, it's not really saying much. Most of the manga has characters, like Shugo and Rena, referring to Hotaru as a girl. Oh, and which page in analysis does it say that the Udeden anime is canon? Kulaguy 22:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC) :::I have to agree. The evidence for Hotaru being female outweighs evidence saying otherwise. The only real evidence is Let's Meet Offline, which is non-canon. None of the characters in the LotT manga even hint at her being male. Besides, isn't she supposed to be like, the female version of the Elk/Tsukasa/Luke avatar? Also, whenever there's a costume change, Hotaru is always seen wearing female outfits. For instance in the Rena Special Pack all of the male characters dress in doctor's outfits, while all the females wear nurses outfits. Hotaru wears a nurses outfit. She also appears in several of the female only pinups. --CRtwenty 01:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC) ::Time to bring this debate back up. :::Gah, do we have to? ::Hell, if it was in the Tokyopopo version, it's not really saying much. :::I don't have either, and I didn't add this part. Someone else will have to confirm for either version... ::Most of the manga has characters, like Shugo and Rena, referring to Hotaru as a girl. :::Magi is called "she", Bo is called "he" (I think he's referred to as male when Haseo first meets him, in Japanese at least). Unless you can prove there's some feature to check player gender, I don't know how we can assume it's actually clear to the players. In addition, I still need to read the manga, but how much of what they said about Hotaru was gender-specific in the original is unclear, so this might not be as much of an issue. ::Oh, and which page in analysis does it say that the Udeden anime is canon? :::79, 84, 89, and others all state as canon things that are only true in the anime. ::Besides, isn't she supposed to be like, the female version of the Elk/Tsukasa/Luke avatar? :::Actually, I forgot this in the controversy summary, but this was one of the other reasons cited for thinking her PC is male. As far as we know, is there a female Tsukasa-type? (outside of G.U. at least) ::Also, whenever there's a costume change, Hotaru is always seen wearing female outfits. For instance in the Rena Special Pack all of the male characters dress in doctor's outfits, while all the females wear nurses outfits. Hotaru wears a nurses outfit. She also appears in several of the female only pinups. :::But... No chest at all. Are you aware of Bridget? Anyway, my point is that there isn't a definitive word on this, just like Sophora's gender. We had a heated debate about Magi, despite there being official evidence for that, and since the only sources I know of for Hotaru's gender are tainted by information about the anime (which subsequently retconned it) is it that insane to just leave it blank and have a section explaining both sets of reasons? - Kuukai2 07:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC) ::::I never agreed with the thing on Magi either, but that's another topic. There is official evidence of Hotaru being female in the game, they specifically call her a girl several times in the actual series. The only evidence of her not being a girl is in the clearly non-canon Let's Meet Offline. If Hotaru was a boy, don't you think that it would have been a plot point they'd touch on, like oh... say Tsukasa, or Sakubo? So far the only evidence I'm seeing from you is either non-canon, or based on the fact that she doesn't look feminine enough to you. --CRtwenty 07:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC) :::::Rei Idzumi herself says that Magi's PC is male, in the manga volume itself, how can you not agree with that? Magi's gender was never a plot point, so no, I don't think it's necessary. People in the series thinking Hotaru is female doesn't clear this up any more than people in SIGN (namely Tsukasa himself) thinking Tsukasa was a boy irl, and again I'm not even sure to what extent she is actually gender-labeled by them. There's some definitely cross-pollination of ideas between the anime and the canon media, such as Sanjuro and Hotaru meeting in AIB2, and as the only explicit official statement of her gender at all has only been for the anime version. For all of the anime, her gender situation was the same as the manga, I don't see any specific factor that would imply it has to be different just because it's the manga vs. the anime. This of course isn't proof, I'm just saying there's doubt, and it's weird to just throw that out without any explicit evidence that warrants doing so. Especially since even the "canon/non-canon" line is something drawn by fans, not them, in the first place, which is why analysis and pretty much all timelines and official statements have ignored it. I kinda really wanna get ahold of Firefly in Japanese and see if it clears this up at all... - Kuukai2 08:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC) ::::::Shut up Kuukai. "LAWLZ HOTARU ISNT A GIRL CUZ ANALYSIS HAS CARL'S CLASS WRONG!" The fuck does that have to do with anything? If you don't wanna use Analysis for this page, then remove every single piece of info taken from Analysis from all pages. Heck we can't have info that could possibly be wrong because they got a few classes wrong in the book. Unless you can disprove Hotaru being a girl other than the bullshit excuse you're using now, Hotaru is a girl. More than one piece of media supports it. All I see is someone who wants Hotaru to boy. Kulaguy 02:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC) Baby Grunty? Do you think we should make a section dedicated to her Grunty here? Or do you think it should get a seperate page? He is a fairly important character in LotT. --CRtwenty 20:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)